Slavery; the root cause of Secession & War

[Johan Steele]

And conveniently forgeting or ignoring the USCT.

[Johan Steele]

Voter irregularities... if you are unaware of them all I can say is pick up a book on Secession.  Look to the numbers of CS troops in Virginia, Tennessee prior to Secession and at various polling places.  They've been mentioned before on other threads here and ANY study of the West Virginia question brings them forward.  I suppose I should face the probability you haven't studied that aspect at all. 

BorderRuffian, post something worthwhile w/ a source or two of your own and maybe something other than your typical snipes.

Below you will find some good information of troops in polling places and such.

[Johan Steele]

I must applaud you Catherine on further hijacking the thread; bravo.

Dyers lists 732 organizations raised from states of the South.  I consider: Alabama (6), Arkansas (17), Florida (2), Georgia (1), Kentucky (80), Louisiana (23),Maryland (35), Missouri (447), Mississippi (10), North Carolina ( 8 ), South Carolina (5), Tennessee (56), Texas (4), Virginia (1), West Virginia (37) & I also add the USCT (186) which brings the total to 918.  Now I know some of those never completed being raised and some are invariably counted twice as units sometimes had two seperate designations (which is why I fail to mention the 30 organizations of the Corps de Afrique.)  732 batteries, Regiments and assorted Battalions denied the CS.  And add 186 organizations of the USCT bringing the total to well over 900.  Hardly insignificant no matter how you want to spin it.  900 units unavailable to the Cs that were available to the US.

So lets be generous and say only 200,000 (though the number was likely closer to twice that) served in the US military (we're omitting the Navy) of military age served against the CS.  THere is a formula somewhere to figure military age to non military age IIRC it's something like 4 non military to 1 military.  One begins to see that the CS was not quite so popular as some would have us believe.  I tend to place the CS Army at around 1 million, so in other words one in four southerners of military age served the US instead of the CS.  And this number does not include irregulars and other non mustered troops which were anything but insignificant.

A Compendium of the War of the Rebellion by Frederick H. Dyer

I hate to tell you this but unless you're a Native American you're descended from an immigrant; Southern or just plain American.

[Johan Steele]

Note: The following is taken from The Warrior Generals by Thomas Buell. Buell chronicles the Civil War through the careers of six generals: Lee & Grant, Hood & Thomas, Gordon & Barlow. This excerpt is taken from one of the chapters on John B. Gordon.

Before the war, Gordon was a young, up-and-coming Fire-Eater down along the GA-AL line. During the war, he bacame a successful Confederate general, commanding the last attack of Lee's ANV at Petersburg. After the war, he was eventually elected to Congress.
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'Figures like William L. Yancey, the most prominent Democrat in Alabama and an ardent, influential advocate of secession and slavery, shaped Gordon's political thinking. On July 18, 1860, Gordon spoke as Yancey's surrogate during commencement at Ogelthorpe University near Milledgeville. His speech, entitled "Progress of Civil Liberty," was delivered before the university's literary societies. "African slavery," said Gordon, "is the mightiest engine in the universe for the civilization, elevation and refinement of mankind -- the surest guarantee of the continuance of liberty among ourselves. Then let us do our duty, protect our liberties and leave the consequences with God, who alone can control them."
'Gordon had a dream. "Do this and the day is not far distant," he said, "when the Southern flag shall be omnipotent from the Gulf of Panama to the coast of Delaware; when Cuba shall be ours; when the western breeze shall kiss our flag, as it floats in triumph from the gilded turrets of Mexico's capital; when the well clad, well fed, Southern Christian slave shall beat his tamborine and banjo amid the orange-bowered groves of Central America; and when a pro-slavery legislature shall meet in council in the Halls of Montezuma. And our foreign population, too, shall be encouraged by a successful resistance, on our part, to the aggressions of these Northern agrresssors."
This was Gordon's credo: white liberty was dependent upon black slavery in perpetuity. The Southern Recorder accorded his speech a measure of attention. "Mr. Gordon was for protection to our slave property in its broadest sense, and was for expansion and extension. ... He was an unadulterated 'filibuster' ... A distinguished friend in commenting upon it, said that it commenced with an eulogy upon liberty, but wound up with an eulogy on slavery. But, upon the whole, we liked the speech."
'During the presidential campaign Gordon went on the stump in Georgia and Alabama for John C. Breckenridge, the proslavery Democratic candidate, occassionally sharing the platform with Yancey. When Lincoln won, secession was certain. A special convention convened in Montgomery, Alabama, on January 11, 1861, and voted to secede. Crowds hurrahed, cannons roared, and church bells pealed. Orators, Yancey among them, whipped the crowds into delerium. Gordon too came before them. The act of secession was repeated eight days later in Milledgeville amid rejoicing. Gordon harangued the shrieking Georgia crowd."


My thanks to Trice for the exerpt

[Johan Steele]

David Detzer's Dissonance had to say about the use of troops at polling places during the plebiscite on secession in Virginia on May 23rd, 1861. Here's Detzer:
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All across Virginia on this day average voters had their own say on secession. The results of the referendum were: 96,750 in favor of secession, 32,134 against.

In reality, those numbers constituted a sham. Virginia already housed thousands of out-of-state Confederate soldiers on its soil.

Like most states, Virginia was a loosely sewn garment. Her southwestern counties, where men like Henry Wise and Edmund Ruffin lived, were avidly secessionist; but along the Potomac a goodly portion of the population retained mixed feelings. Many in that region had either been born in the North or had relatives there. The western counties of the state were firm in their unionism. Troops were sent to polling places near Harpers Ferry to overawe those who might contemplate voting against the resolution. In Jefferson County (where Harpers Ferry was) the tactic worked; many frightened voters stayed home on the day of the referendum; but in Berkley County, just to the west, the troops faced such a strong and violent opposition they quietly returned to their barracks. Further west, in Morgan County, the vote against secession was six-to-one. Such counties, and their neighbors, would soon make up the state of West Virginia.

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It is interesting to note how other events happened around this:
this very day, the Kentucky legislature, after continuous debate since January on the question of secession, proclaimed the state's neutrality and adjourned.
on the evening of May 23rd, Federal troops crossed the Potomac and occupied Alexandria
on the afternoon of May 23rd, Ben Butler (newly arrived in Ft. Monroe) ordered a recon of the town of Hampton in Virginia. Some 779 men of the 1st VT regiment "marched" (strolled might be more like it; it was about an hour's walk) into town, checking to see what water supplies were available for the most part, but also to see if there was a force of rebels nearby. Finding none, they returned to Ft. Monroe before dark.
a slave named Luke and 2 other slaves followed them back, arriving about dusk, and asked for asylum. The matter was referred to Butler the next day. Major J. B. Cary,VA Volunteers, appeared at the fort demanding the return of the slaves. Butler knew Cary from the 1860 Democratic Convention in Charleston. Butler said he would give a receipt to the slaves owner, but would not return them. Their owner was Colonel Mallory, VA volunteers. Butler planned to use the three fugitives as laborers, but he regarded the slaves as contraband of war. Col. Mallory could have his property back if he came to Ft. Monroe and swore an oath of allegiance to the United States of America.


On the Confederate troops in Virginia, Jefferson Davis had informed the Confederate Congress in late April that some 16,000 of the 35,000 Confederate troops accepted into service at that time were en route to or in Virginia. This would include only troops accepted into service from the states as part of the Provisional Army, or part of the very tiny Regular Army. Any state milita or volunteers would not be included. This probably does not include the Tennessee regiment that was in Virginia in May since Tennessee had not officially seceded at that point, nor the 500 or so Kentucky volunteers with Jackson at Harpers Ferry in early May, nor the Marylanders forming in Virginia in April-May.

But what exactly were they voting on? Secession was already in existence de facto. The state government had already initiated hostilities with the US, seized all Federal facilities it can easily get, fired at US flag vessels, and sent Virginia forces and weapons into Maryland. The Confederate capital is already moving to Richmond. A alliance is already in effect.

So what would have happened if the state voted "NO" with a roar? Would all those "foreign" troops have immediately left peacefully (giving back the weapons Virginia had already issued them)? Would Jefferson Davis and his government (who had already shown a propensity for direct action) have simply left? Would Virginia have to pay recompense to the Federal government for the damage they had done?

I suppose the Confederates might have left, quietly and peacefully. They might have given back the thousands of sets of arms and equipment VA had given them, the guns, etc. Lincoln might have rushed to welcome them, and all might have been forgiven. But it might have been a little hard to see it that way in VA in May of 1861, with the streets and bars full of soldiers and parades.

If the secessionists in VA had wanted a fair and quiet election, they could have had one. All they had to do was to wait before acting, to refrain from attacking the US and inviting the Confederacy in. Notice that they did not, and rushed to create a situation where victory for their side was highly likely.
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Tennessee
—Gov. Harris was an active secessionist, and to him is attributable the secession of the state in 1861. At the first appearance of trouble he summoned the legislature to meet Jan. 7. 1861, and consider the state's federal relations. The legislature passed a bill to call a convention, but at the same time submitted the question to popular vote. At the election, Feb. 9, East Tennessee gave 25,611 majority against, Middle Tennessee 1,382 majority against, and West Tennessee 15,118 majority for, a convention, and the convention did not meet. The first attempt at "coercion" (see SECESSION, III.) renewed the excitement. The legislature was summoned to meet again, April 25, but this time a more certain, though absurdly illegal, plan was followed. May 1, in secret session, the legislature authorized the governor to appoint commissioners to conclude a military league with the confederate states, and the league was ratified by both houses, May 7. It purported to agree, that, "until the state becomes a member of the confederacy," her whole force should be under the control of the president of the confederate states, "upon the same basis, principles and footing as if said state were now and during the interval a member of the said confederacy." Having thus invited confederate troops into the state, and authorized the governor to levy 55,000 state troops, the legislature completed the farce by submitting to popular vote, June 8, a declaration of independence and ordinance of secession. It is quite useless to argue about the right of a state legislature to make a treaty, or the power of a people to vote under military domination. It is only remarkable that so large a vote was cast against secession. In East Tennessee the vote was 14,780 for, and 32,923 against; in Middle Tennessee 58,265 for, and 8,198 against; in West Tennessee 29,127 for, and 6,117 against; in the camps, 2,741 for, and none against; total vote, 104,913 for, and 47,238 against, secession. June 24, Gov. Harris, by proclamation, declared the state out of the union. The popular vote on June 8 had also ratified the confederate constitution. In the autumn, Gov. Harris was re-elected by a vote of 69,269 to 40,467 for Wm. H. Polk; but early in 1862 the advance of the federal forces drove him out of the state capital.
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This is from Cyclopædia of Political Science, Political Economy, and the Political History of the United States by the Best American and European Writers by John J. Lalor, published by Maynard, Merril & Co., New York, 1899. See http://www.econlib.org/library/YPDBo.../llCy1022.html for more.

Once again my thanks to Trice

[Johan Steele]

And evidence that some thought the votes anything but legitimate or honest:

Here is an excerpt from the side you rarely hear from, the Unionists in Tennessee. This is from the "DECLARATION OF GRIEVANCES ADOPTED AT THE GREENVILLE CONVENTION" which convened on June 17th 1861.
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So far as we can learn the election held in this state on the 8th day of the present month was free, with but few exceptions, in no part of the state, other than East Tennessee. In the larger parts of Middle and West Tennessee no speeches or discussions in favor of the Union were permitted - Union papers were not allowed to circulate. Measures were taken in some parts of West Tennessee, in defiance of the constitution and laws, which allowed folded tickets, to have the ballots numbered in such manner as to mark and expose the Union votes. A disunion paper, the "Nashville Gazette," in urging the people to vote an open ticket declared that a "thief takes a pocketbook, or effects an entrance into forbidden places by stealthy means - a Tory, in voting, usually adopts pretty much the same course of procedure." Disunionists, in many places, had charge of the polls, and Union men, when voting, were denounced as Lincolnites and Abolitionists. The unanimity of the votes in many large counties where , but a few weeks ago, the Union sentiment was so strong, proves beyond doubt that Union men were overawed by the tyranny of the military power, and the still greater tyranny of a corrupt and subsidized press. In the city of Memphis, where 5,613 votes were cast, but five free men had the courage to vote for the Union, and these were stigmatized in the public press as "ignorant traitors who opposed the popular edicts." Our earnest appeal made at the Knoxville Convention, to our brethren in the other divisions of the state, was published there only to a small extent and the members and names of those who composed our convention, as well as the counties they represented, were suppressed, and the effort made to impress the minds of the people that East Tennessee was favorable to secession. The "Memphis Appeal," a prominent disunion paper, published a false account of our proceedings, under the head - "the traitors in council" - and styled us who represented every county but two in East Tennessee "the little batch of disaffected traitors, who hover around the noxious atmosphere of Andrew Johnson's home.". Our meeting was telegraphed to the "New Orleans Delta," and it was falsely said that we had passed a resolution recommending submission, if 70,000 votes were not cast against secession. The dispatch added that "the southern rights are determined to hold possession of the state, though they should be in a minority". Volunteers were allowed to vote in and out of the state, in flagrant violation of the constitution. From the moment the election was over, and before any detailed statement of the vote in the different counties had been published, and before it was possible to ascertain the result, it was exultantly proclaimed that separation had been carried by from 50,000 to 70,000 votes. This was to prepare the public mind to enable "the secessionists to hold possession of the state though they should be in a minority." The final result is to be announced by a disunion governor, whose existence depends upon the success of secession, and no provision is made by law for an examination of the vote by disinterested persons, or even for contesting the election. For these and other causes we do not regard the result of the election as expressive of the will of a majority of the freemen of Tennessee. Had the election everywhere been conducted as it was in East Tennessee, we would entertain a different opinion. Here, no effort was made to suppress secession papers, or prevent secession speeches or votes, although an overwhelming majority of the people were against secession. Here, no effort has been made to prevent the formation of military companies, or obstruct the transportation of armies, or to prosecute those who violated the laws of the United States and of Tennessee against treason. The Union men of East Tennessee, anxious to be neutral in the contest, were content to enjoy their own opinions and to allow the utmost latitude of opinion and action to those who differed from them. Had the same toleration prevailed in other parts of the state, we have no doubt that a majority of our people would have voted to remain in the Union. But, if this view is erroneous, we have the same (and we think, a much better) right to remain in the Government of the United States than the other divisions of Tennessee have to secede from it.
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For more, see http://www.tngenweb.org/campbell/history/gcon.html


And my final Thanks to Trice for the day.

[Catherine Hopley]

Pro-Unionists who don't bother to research the subject properly are prone to claiming that western Virginia was solid in its support for the coercionist cause.

"In the final analysis, twenty-five of fifty counties encompassed by West Virginia supported the Confederacy and opposed dismemberment. These counties comprised nearly two-thirds of the total area of this State and they contained 142, 000 white inhabitants or 40 per cent of the total population. Northwestern Union counties, though smaller in size, had approximately 210,000 people. The Rebel minority ran as high as 40 per cent in some Union counties; but the reverse was also true. Therefore, a 60-40 split favorable to Unionists appears to be accurate in gauging the loyalties of inhabitants included in this State. These numerical and geographical divisions explode the myth of Union solidarity in West Virginia."

[Curry, A House Divided: Statehood Politics & The Copperhead Movement In West Virginia, p.53.]

[Catherine Hopley]

If the majority of white Virginians opposed secession, but were cowed by the intimidating presence of C.S. troops, this would have clear implications for CW bibliography.

In the privacy of their own homes, these Unionists would have poured out their feelings in diaries and letters. Thousand of these would have survived, and many would have found their way into print. Those that remained unpublished but in the holdings of universities and libraries would have formed a rich seam for generations of historians.

So....where are they?

[Catherine Hopley]

If one is discussing the popular mandate for secession, it seems reasonable to limit oneself to considering those states which did actually secede.

So it is manifestly illogical to cite the existence of Union regiments from non-seceding states as evidence of the unpopularity of secession. If one is going to cite Missouri one might as well cite Massachusetts.

It is also ludicrous to include the USCT. Nobody pretends that Negroes were consulted when the Confederacy was created. Negroes were never consulted when the United States declared independence. Negroes were never consulted when successive U.S. governments were elected up to 1860.

The fact is that Negroes had no voice in American politics - North or South - during this period of history.

So, of the 918 units cited as evidence that the majority of citizens in the 11 seceded states were Unionists, it turns out that 748 were either from states which did not secede or were USCT. 918 minus 748 equals 170.

There is still a discrepancy with Carl Degler's estimate of 89 units of white Southerners. And that, I would guess, is explained by the fact that many of the units with state designations were comprised of Negroes too. The South Carolinian ones certainly were.

[Johan Steele]

Ma'am the men of the USCT voiced their opinion quite clearly w/ their actions.  They served and their voice was obvious where it counted.  You may not consider them southern or relevant; they did and their impact upon the war is rather obvious no matter how much you might wish to deny or belittle it.

Every state I listed was considered a southern state or viewed as part of the CS.

Where are the letters?  I've read some of them over the years.  Where did they go?  Well West Virginia fielded how many units?  How many from Tennessee?  Secession was not as cut and dried as you would have us believe but a far more complex thing than every southerner going "Yeah, that's a good idea."  Quite a few southerners disagreed w/ your position and remained loyal to the US more, I think, than you want to consider.