SLAVERY: NOT JUST SOMETHING FOR THE SOUTH

[ole]

We're getting into desperation territory now, Johan. A double handful of northern ship owners are making a killing transporting slaves to Cuba (not Brazil, Pie, that was fairly well cancelled in 1850), and it serves to make the south, somehow, guiltless. Bad choice of words. This is not about guilt. What happened, happened. It does seem a bit pitiful that the best that can be said for slaveholders is that some greedy schmucks up north ran a few thousand slaves in under the nose of the Royal Navy.

One thing is overlooked here. Who was buying them?

On another forum we've looked at the post 1808 congressional ban on the trade. After that time, somewhere in the neighborhood of a half million were trickled over. This is, of course, the fault of the double handful of northern shipowners.

Pie has done an extraordinary amount of work in uncovering this illicit trade. For that I will stand up and applaud that work. Thank you, Piewacket. Such scholarship deserves recognition and my praise. It does remain, 'though, that these guys were making a very nice buck transporting wretched humans to a buyer. And who was that buyer? Kinda comes apart on that questiion.

ole

[Southron]

We're getting into desperation territory now, Johan. A double handful of northern ship owners are making a killing transporting slaves to Cuba (not Brazil, Pie, that was fairly well cancelled in 1850), and it serves to make the south, somehow, guiltless. Bad choice of words. This is not about guilt. What happened, happened. It does seem a bit pitiful that the best that can be said for slaveholders is that some greedy schmucks up north ran a few thousand slaves in under the nose of the Royal Navy.

"A double handful of northern ship owners"

There were a lot more involved:  Shipping companies, captains of ships and their crews, government officials who passed the ships out of port.  Lots of money to pass around.

"some greedy schmucks up north ran a few thousand slaves in under the nose of the Royal Navy"

There were dozens of ships involved in the trade.  I have read as high as 40.  If each ship made one successful run per year that would be about 20,000 slaves delivered (@500 per ship).

[Piewacket1861]

In answer to your question was it just a "few" Northerners, the answer I give is a flat no, there were many.  And the fortunes that were founded on the bedrock of slavery, albeit

"international slavery"

or

"Southern slavery"

remains tainted money. 

The Biltmores, Astors, etc. still have beautiful monuments to their "supposed generosity".  Names of the rich and famous of that era were kept out as best they could, but are coming to light now.  And we still have Churchill Downs, the Belmont Stakes, etc., these playthings for the

"rich and famous"

are still with us all these years later.

To think that it was all built on Southern aristocracy is a fallacy.  There are very few plantation homes left and none
ever came close to rivaling the

"summer homes of New Yorkers"

who needed to

"escape"

the heat of the summer.

There was a show on television a few years back that showed these homes, with their 18kt. fixtures, ballrooms, etc. 

A plantation home usually consisted of twin parlors, bedrooms, and some of the bigger ones had a ballroom because when these people got together they'd traveled many miles and intended to stay for weeks "visiting" with their relatives.  Every family looked forward to these occasions.

The difference, is that once the war was lost for the South, so was their economy, and those homes were sold for taxes or passed into different hands.

The South was reduced to rubble because the war had been fought on its lands.  And the song

"The Homespun Dress"

became a reality every day.

Pie[/size]

[Piewacket1861]

Also, Ole, please note, that many posts previously I had said:
They noted that 43 vessels of various nations had brought 16,200 new slaves to Brazil, and that the most successful slave voyages were those of ships that flew the American flag. (my emphasis)

Signing off for tonight.  I still have to see whether we want to go out to eat or stay in.

Till we meet another day.

Pie

[ole]

Flying the "American Flag" was no more evidence of an American-owned ship than it is now. Ships of many nations flew that flag because the Royal Navy tended to let such ships pass (partly due to the smarting over 1812).

Were northern-owned ships still transporting slaves to Cuba and other islands after 1808? Of course they were; there were very few southern-owned ships of a size necessary to transport slaves. But those weren't the barks and schooners and yawls and smacks that were picking slaves up from those islands and sneaking them into the many inlets along the coasts.

Lost your post somewhere in here, Southron. Excellent points. The money involved in slaverunning was analogous to our current difficulties with interdicting the drug traffic: when there's a LOT of money involved, there's a LOT of people involved.

Slavery did exist in Brazil after 1850, but it was on or shortly after that that the UK got into a short shooting war to force Brazil to close the ports to slave ships. I believe it was somewhere around 1868 that Brazil officiall ended the practice. It existed up in coffee country, but importation was mostly curtailed.

The Biltmores, Astors, etc. still have beautiful monuments to their "supposed generosity".  Names of the rich and famous of that era were kept out as best they could, but are coming to light now.  And we still have Churchill Downs, the Belmont Stakes, etc., these playthings for the "rich and famous" are still with us all these years later.

I'll assume you can link those fortunes to slaverunners? Or were you comparing the fortunes made by a few of 30,000,000 northerners with those made by a few of 9,000,000 southerners. The antebellum south claimed to have more than half of the richest men in all the states.

ole

[Johan Steele]

Ole, here is the link I believe you requested.  So far the thread is nothing new.

http://civilwartalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26565

[ole]

Bless you my child. 'Preciate it.

Johan has provided a link to a discussion that went on and on and back and forth about re-opening the slave trade and illegal slave running. It may prove interesting.

ole

[Southron]

Ole, here is the link I believe you requested.  So far the thread is nothing new.

http://civilwartalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26565

Thanks for the link.

It appears from that thread that very few slaves were imported to the US after 1808.

[ole]

It appears from that thread that very few slaves were imported to the US after 1808.

Just perhaps, Southron, you might reread that thread. The way I read it is that we were trying to figure out how many more tnan 250,000 were run across the borders after the 1808 restriction. That there were considerably more than a "very few" just jumps out.

However, I do appreciate that you cared enough to look into it. Thank you.

ole

[Johan Steele]

http://www.slaveryinamerica.org/geography/slavery_abolition_us.htm

Comparing the various codes is interesting... thanks Unionblue for the link.